Continuing the Conversation Oxygen TV

Continuing the Conversation: This week we talked about how we found the television serious ‘Snapped’ on Oxygen TV. The series profiles women accused of murder. 

You can watch full episodes of Snapped on their website You can also check them out on their YouTube channel.

When we were going through their Snapped episodes we found a recent episode on Kelly Cochran which we talked about in our October, Episode 4. If you missed this episode click HERE to check out our Podcast on Kelly Cochran and the Benton Harbor House of David!

Do you have a favorite crime television show? Share it with us by posting a comment so we can check it out!


Continuing Conversation Genghis Khan

Continuing the conversation This week we talked about who Genghis Khan was and the brutal acts he committed.

Alltimes10 Youtube video listing off brutal facts about Genghis Kahn. 


Here is an interesting clip on about Genghis Khan: Genghis Khan


Continuing Conversation Oakland County Child Killer

Continuing the conversation: On January 18th we talked about the Oakland County Child Killer. Local Detroit news channel questions whether or not authorities were looking into the wrong vehicle for historic unsolved murders of the Oakland County Child Killer. Read their news story Did the Oakland County Child Killer case focus on the wrong car for decades?

Who do you think the Oakland County Child Killer is?

Make me a fan podcast Youtube video clip examines the Oakland County Child Killer.

Continuing the Conversation Murder and dismemberment of Ramsay Scrivo

Continuing the conversation: This week we talked about the drugging, strangling, burning, and dismemberment of Ramsey Scrivo of St. Claire Shores.

Donna Scrivo  did the unforgivable when she failed to nurture and care for her child, and chose to drug, kill, burn, and dismember his body. Donna used a 4 1/2 inch tool to strangle him and dismembered her son in 12 separate pieces with a power saw to get through the bone while using a knife to cut through his tissue and she burned him at their home and she burned him in his legs and the muscles around his neck while he was in the bathtub. She put his body pieces into 6 black kitchen trash bags and distributed them on a rural highway road in St. Clair County which I found out was 34 miles away from their home. Ramsay had 400 nanograms per milliliter of Xanax in his system which is 4 times the amount of a normally prescribed dose. She still to this day holds her position that a man entered the home and killed her son while she was supposedly held, hostage which is the story she told on the stand during her trial, her testimony was a total of 90 minutes long – She sobbed hard for a total of two minutes straight once during her testimony and it was during the period when the defense attorney mentioned her late husband. Note she did not tell the police about the man and hostage situation when she called the police and reported him missing. Clearly, she is lying and claims during her sentencing that during the trial the jurors knew about the case and were prejudiced and there were inconsistencies and inaccuracies during her trial (We know she will use this in her appeal).

Oxygen Tv on their Snapped serious talked about the case of Ramsey Scrivo

The sentencing of Donna Scrivo

Read more about this case on the Daily Mail: Woman found guilty of murder and dismemberment of her adult son 

Show Notes: The Murder of Ramsay Scrivo and Genghis Khan highlights

This show, “Michigan and other Mayhem”, is a sort of factual, slightly comical, always earnest podcast about interesting stuff in Michigan and around the world. It is done by two sisters-in-law (Ali and Jenn) that like to talk about random interesting stories.  Expect cults, mysteries, murder, fast-talking, and a couple of mental palate cleansers… and cuss words.  Those happen on this show, a lot.

Episode 17: The Murder of Ramsay Scrivo and Genghis Khan highlights

Click Here to Listen to Episode 17

Warning: This podcast occasionally contains strong language which may be unsuitable for children.


  • Pretend podcast music (because we couldn’t find any we liked enough for a theme song).
  • Ali has a weird laugh. It is often loud.

Today’s podcast will be about the drugging, strangling, burning, and dismemberment of Ramsay Scrivo, along with Genghis Khan high-level facts.

Jenn became a Youtube patron after we started the podcast.  She has now used to learn a filter for items uploaded in the last 30 days.  Jenn is now informed about all the terrible murders in Michigan in 2018.  It makes sense to Ali who learned about a podcast called Murder Mitten and she received a book called Blood on the Mitten.

On the Oxygen channel, they have a series called Snap! Which profiles women who committed murder.  Ali believed it because there is a guy called Paul Holes who was significant in catching The Golden State Murderer.  Paul mentioned working for Oxygen.

16,000 people a year are murdered in the US, and 7% of the killers are women.

Ramsay Scrivo

Ramsay, 32-years-old, lived with his mother in St. Claire Shores, Michigan. His mother, Donna, reported him missing January 27, 2014.  He lived with his mom.  Ramsay had been diagnosed with psychosis and had threatened to hang himself about 8 months before his disappearance.

Ramsay’s psychosis was triggered by the death of his father after a terminal illness. The day his dad died, it triggered him.

January 30, 2014, a motorist found a human head in a trash bag on the side of the Fred Moore Highway.  It was confirmed to be Ramsay’s.  Donna, Ramsay’s mom, was arrested the next day.

The police believe she was overwhelmed with her son’s illness after the death of her husband. Donna is 60 years old and a nurse at St. John’s hospital.  She has a second son who was unharmed. Due to Donna being a nurse, she was thought to be a good provider for her mentally ill son.

The cops said that neighbors reported seeing her place multiple garbage bags into the car after her son’s death. Gas station surveillance video shows her at one of the dump sites.  Ramsay’s blood was also found in her car and in the home.

Police believe Donna drugged Ramsay, then strangled him, and then tried to burn the body unsuccessfully, before dismembering him and putting him in garbage bags.  Part of her home showed fire damage. It takes a lot to burn a body.

Donna has denied killing her son.  She was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.  Jenn can’t find any news articles about the case but did find hours of the trial on Youtube. Or someone and find out and tell her.

Jenn thinks between the two of them… her son might kill her, instead of her killing her son.  She thinks her klutzy ways might make her a burden. Ali promised to follow-up if Jenn dies under mysterious circumstances.

A Continuing Conversation will become out about Kelly Cochran, who we’ve covered.  Jenn found the video on Oxygen.

Genghis Khan, life’s highlights

Genghis Khan was the founder and First Great Khan of the Mongol Empire.  His birth name was Temujin (Tem-oo-gin).  He then gave himself the name Genghis Khan when he was around 40 years old. Khan is a traditional title meaning “leader” or “ruler”. Genghis Khan means “universal leader”.

He was born in 1162 with a blood clot in his fist, which was believed to foretell him being a great leader. A rival poisoned his father when he was nine and his tribe expelled his mother. She was forced to raise 7 kids alone, without the assistance of a community. Genghis Khan’s family had to hunt and forage for food.  Genghis may his murdered one of his half-brothers in a fight over food when he was around 10 years old.

When he was a teen, rivals abducted Genghis and his wife, forcing him to live as a slave. He escaped and by his early 20’s and was known as a formidable warrior and leader. He began the Mongol Invasion, defeating those in his path.  Genghis made strategic alliances and demanded absolute loyalty through fear of death and retaliation. The Khan’s troops occupied much of Central Asia and China. Genghis united nomadic tribes of Northeast Asia.

Genghis created a single writing system, Uygher (we-gur) which advanced communication.  It united all the different people in a vast area with one written communication system.

Genghis Khan practiced meritocracy.  Meritocracy is the governance by people who have merit (intelligence, talent, achievement, & effort) over wealth or privileged classes. It wouldn’t matter your sexuality, race, wealth, or gender, just your brains and effort.

Women were respected as leaders.  Töregene (tora-jen) Khatun ruled the empire for five years after the death of her husband, Ogedei, a leader in the Khan empire, and before the election of her eldest son.

Genghis Khan encouraged religious tolerance.  You could worship who and how you wanted, just make sure you do your job.

He was also credited with bringing the Silk Road under one political environment, bringing communication and trade from Northeast Asia into Muslim Southwest Asia, and Christian Europe, and expanding culture.

The negative effect of the Khan takeover: Genocide. His troops were known to have killed millions. Genghis Khan leads large-scale massacres of civilians. Historians put the number of people killed by Khan’s troops to around 40 million.  That is more than Hitler and Stalin combined.  Genghis Khan reduced the entire world population by as much as 11 percent.

Genghis Khan killed so many people that he may have scrubbed 700 million tons of carbon from the atmosphere by allowing previously populated and cultivated land to return to carbon-absorbing forest. He killed so many people that he affected climate change, cooling the planet.

No known records of details of his personal life or physical appearance survived through time.

Khan died in 1227, at age 65.  No one knows for sure how he died.  There are rumors of it being a fall from a horse, a wound from an arrow, or he could have died trying to rape a Chinese princess. He was buried somewhere in Mongolia, in an unmarked grave.

To conceal the location, his funeral escort executed everyone in their path.  The legend states that his warriors then killed the slaves who dug the graves, then killed each other. The last man alive was to kill himself.  All this was done to keep his burial site secret.

Genghis Khan’s empire continued with large-scale slaughters. His descendants continued his work conquering their way through Eastern Europe and Southwest Asia.  Genghis Khan’s empire became the largest contiguous empire in history.

A sultan killed Genghis Khan’s emissary and in return Genghis Khan killed the entire royal family.

It was about 13.5 million kilometres (or about 8.4 million square miles).  His empire peaked in 1260, before breaking into four smaller empires.

10% of the men who lived in the Mongol Empire, at the time of his death, may have carried Genghis Khan’s DNA. 0.5% of men in the world, about 16 million individuals alive today, carry his DNA. Genghis Khan had multiple wives (500 of them), a harem, and he raped.  His first wife, Borte, that he had saved from a rival tribe gave him four sons and at least six daughters.  Only Borte’s sons were considered legitimate successors.

Genghis quotes:

“The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms.”

When asked what is best in life.  Conan: Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!


“I am the flail of god. Had you not created great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”
― Genghis Khan

Genghis Khan killed 11% of the world’s population and probably gave PTSD to everyone else.

You can’t tell from this podcast, but Ali had toned down the cursing in previous episodes.  Maybe is it today’s content.  Ali uses all the cuss words when she talks.  She never uses racial slurs.  Ali can insult you with all the other words she has.

Once again Ali messes up the ending.

The Murder of Ramsay Scrivo and Genghis Khan highlights

Today’s two topics are the drugging, strangling, burning, and dismemberment of Ramsay Scrivo, along with Genghis Khan high-level facts. Listen in to find out who they both could be by listening to our podcast or reading the full show notes at

Click Here to Listen to Episode 17

Warning: This podcast occasionally contains strong language which may be unsuitable for children.

Continuing the Conversation National Museum of Crime & Punishment

Continuing the conversation: This week we talked about the Crime Museum located in Washington, DC. An interesting fact of this privately-owned museum is John Walsh is one of the owners and Unsolved Mysteries was filmed in the studio from 2008-2013 located at the museum!

Check out more information on the Crime Museum on their website at  Home – Crime Museum

The Crime Museum Facebook page Click Here

Check out a brief video from Inside Perks YouTube video

Continuing the Conversation Villisca Ax Murder of 1912

Continuing the conversation: This week we talked about the Villisca Axe Murder House located in Villisca, Iowa. This house was the scene of a current unsolved murder of the Moor family and two of their children’s friends in 1912.

Check out the official site for the Villisca Ax Murder House. Definitely, a must see for those who are interested in murders and unsolved mysteries.

The Official Site of the Villisca Axe Murders of 1912

Check out this YouTube video on ParanormalPat’s YouTube channel as he walks you through the Villisca Ax Murder House.


Check out this YouTube video on Horror Stories YouTube channel as he talks about the murders that happened at the Villisca Ax Murder House.


After the murders, it is told that the town became divided. Check out marlinjerkins2 YouTube video about how the town became divided. 

Continuing the Conversation The True Crime Museum in Hastings England

Continuing the Conversation: This week we talked about the True Crime Museum in Hastings, England. 


Check out the museum here on the Ture Crime Museum YouTube channel

Additional sites for the True Crime Museum

True Crime Museum Facebook Page:

True Crime Museum Website Page:

Show Notes: Oakland County Child Killer, Three True Crime Locations to Visit

This show, “Michigan and other Mayhem”, is a sort of factual, slightly comical, always earnest podcast about interesting stuff in Michigan and around the world. It is done by two sisters-in-law (Ali and Jenn) that like to talk about random interesting stories.  Expect cults, mysteries, murder, fast-talking, and a couple of mental palate cleansers… and cuss words.  Those happen on this show, a lot.

Episode 16: Oakland County Child Killer, Three True Crime Locations to Visit

Click Here to Listen to Episode 16

Warning: This podcast occasionally contains strong language which may be unsuitable for children.


  • Pretend podcast music (because we couldn’t find any we liked enough for a theme song).
  • Ali has a weird laugh. It is often loud.

Today’s podcast will be about the Oakland County Child Killer, which was suggested before our first podcast launched, and 3 True Crime locations or museums.

Jenn thought the Oakland County Child Killer was a solved crime, but it is really a closed cold case. She also looked up True Crime Museums to visit, but one location listed was actually a home that was the scene of mass murder, that you can spend the night in.

Ali received private axe throwing lessons from her mom for a Christmas gift.  Ali is going to work on accuracy and distance to up her odds of surviving a serial killer. Run, turn, throw. Remember that.

Jenn is a klutz.  The other night she hit her eyeball when she opened a cabinet door she has opened for over 20 years. Then she jumped on her son and ran into his fist in the process.  A few weeks ago she hit her elbow on the bathroom and lost feeling in her arm for a week. Jenn’s son is now worried about axe throwing.

Axe throwing is a challenge for Ali because at home her husband won’t let her use a knife. (Too dangerous.)  Her dinners arrive on the dinner table already cut and if she asks for a knife, she’s handed a butter knife.

Jenn decided she’d be one of those girls that trip while running away from a bad guy.

Corrections!  Ali is in a constant state of getting corrected.  Potawatomi IS NOT pronounced pot-a-wah-toe-me but pata-wata-me.  Also, thank you, Shelly, for letting me know that in the Rudolph special, his girlfriend’s name is Clarice, not Cindy.  Maybe I was thinking about Shelly’s girl, Cindy?  I have no idea why I do such things.

Clarice reminds Ali of Silence of the Lambs, and Cindy is from the Grinch.

Oakland County Child Killer 

The Oakland County Child Killer (OCCK) was a person, presumably male, that was responsible for the deaths of at least four children between 1976 and 1977, a 13-month period. This person was also referred to as The Babysitter or The Babysitter Killer because the children were held for 4 to 19 days before being murdered.

The OCCK was responsible for the death of two boys and two girls between the ages of 10 and 12 years old. His identity remains unknown.

1st  victim, 12-year-old Mark Stebbins.

Mark was last seen leaving an American Legion hall on Sunday, February 15, 1976.  He had told his mom he was going home to watch a movie on television.  When Mark wasn’t at home by 11 p.m. that night, his mother called the police to report him missing.

Mark Stebbins was found February 19th, neatly laid out in a snow bank, less than a 20-minute drive away from where he disappeared.  There were rope marks on his wrists and ankles, and it was believed that he had been bound throughout his captivity.  Mark had been sexually assaulted with an object, had two lacerations to the back of his head, and he had been strangled. He was wearing the last outfit he was seen in. According to a witness in the area, his body had to have been placed on the parking lot snow bank before 9:30 that morning.

The 2nd  victim, 12-year-old Jill Robinson.

Jill had argued with her mom about chores and ran away from home, right before Christmas, Wednesday, December 22, 1976. The day after her disappearance, her bike was found behind a hobby store.

Jill’s body was found the day after Christmas, December 26, 1976, on the side of an Interstate in a nearby city. She was shot where she lay, on her back on the ground, with a 12-gauge shotgun blast to the face. Evidence showed she has asphyxiated also. Her body was covered in snow when Jill was found. Jill was within view of the Troy, MI police station. She was fully clothed and still wearing the backpack she had bundled up while running away.

The 3rd victim, 10-year-old Kristine Mihelich.

She was last seen on Sunday, January 2, 1977, at a 7-Eleven, around 3:00 p.m., buying a magazine. Kristine’s mom reported her missing three hours later.

Her body was found by a mail carrier 19 days after she was reported missing.  Kristine’s hands were on her chest, in what is considered the typical funeral pose. Kristine was smothered to death. A medical examiner determined that she had been dead for less than 24 hours.

The 4th victim, 11-year-old Timothy King.

He had was last seen on Wednesday, March 16, 1977, around 8:30 p.m. Timothy left home on his skateboard to go to a corner store. Timothy left via the store’s back door and was never seen again.

His disappearance was heavily covered in the media, considering the deaths of the three previously abducted children.  Law enforcement had just made the serial killer connection after Kristine’s death.  She was the third victim.

Timothy’s father and mother, Barry and Marion King, pled for the release of their son both on newscasts and via letters to the Detroit News. In Marion’s letter, she spoke of hoping her son would come home so that she could serve him his favorite meal, Kentucky Fried Chicken.

On March 22nd, six days after his disappearance, two teenagers driving down the road saw Timothy’s body in a ditch. His skateboard was placed next to his body. His clothes had been neatly washed and pressed. Timothy had been suffocated and sexually assaulted with an object. A postmortem autopsy revealed that he had been fed fried chicken before he died. It was determined that he had died six hours before his body was found.

There were two other known child abduction and murders in the area around the same time.

Cynthia Cadieux, age 16, had been abducted and bludgeoned to death on January 15th, 1976.  Cynthia left a friend’s home around 8:30 p.m. and her corpse were found five hours later. She was nude and had been raped.

Jane Allan, age 14, was found floating in a river in Ohio, after hitchhiking out of Royal Oak, Michigan. Her wrists were found bound behind her back, using strips of cloth from a t-shirt. Decomposition was too advanced to tell if she had been sexually assaulted. It was believed that she had died via carbon monoxide poisoning.

At the time, the search of the killer was the biggest in US history.  The children’s deaths were covered by both of Detroit’s newspapers-the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press.  They were also talked about on radio and television news shows. The Michigan State Police were part of a task force that included officials from 13 communities.

The killer of these children was never found, but the police were able to bust a multi-state child prostitution and pornography ring that was operating out of North Fox Island in Lake Michigan. A wealthy man, Francis Shelden, grandson of a former Michigan governor, bought North Fox Island and created a program called “Brother Paul’s Children’s Mission”.

The island was supposed to be a retreat for at-risk young boys. In reality, it was a secluded island where wealthy clients flew in to have sex with little boys. It grew to be the largest child pornography distribution network in the country before being shut down.

Suspects: at least five before the investigation was shut down, December 1978.

Suspect, Chris Busch, was the son of a high-level General Motors executive. This is the person that Barry King, Timothy King’s father, believes is responsible for the deaths. Gregory Greene, Chris’s friend, and Christopher Busch were both arrested for criminal sexual conduct charges. Gregory told police that Chris had killed Mark Stebbins, the first missing child. Both passed polygraph examinations regarding the serial killings. Gregory was convicted and sent to prison for life for sexually assaulting a young boy in a different case.

Chris Busch was given probation for the same charges.  He also had his bond reduced from $75,000, an amount that both he and Gregory shared, to $1,000. Christopher was convicted again of paedophilia and was again given probation. The men were said to be driving Christopher Busch’s car, a blue Vega with a white stripe.

Chris was suspected to be involved in the child pornography ring on North Fox Island and was a convicted paedophile.  He also lived in the area of the children’s deaths. Bloodstained ligatures were found in his apartment, along with a sketched image of a boy screaming in agony.  The face of the boy is supposed to that of the first victim, Mark Stebbins.  It was also said that the hoodie that the boy in the picture is wearing, matches Mark’s clothing.

It was believed that Chris committed suicide on Thursday, the 16th of November 1978, via gunshot. His maid arrived at his residence on a Monday, the 20th,  and found his front door locked with a chain from the inside and mailed piled up in front of it. Chris was supposed to have started a new job that day. The maid went to the neighbor’s house and they called Chris Busch’s brother, Charles, and the police. (because of no cellphones people)

They had to break the chain across the front door to get in. A TV guide was found in the living room, opened to Thursday’s movie guide. According to the police report, Chris was found lying face up on his bed with a gunshot wound to the head, and a .22 rifle next to him still pointed at his head.  There are sections of the document that have been whited-out, so I wasn’t able to read every word. Mostly, from what I could tell, names were blocked out.

However, Christopher Busch was not found with gunshot residue on his hands. He did have visible scars on his wrists from a previous suicide attempt two years prior.

In 2008, police followed up on new leads and focused on Christopher Busch.  In 2010, he was declared no longer a suspect. Barry King, Timothy’s dad, has filed three appeals in his son’s case. Charges against Chris Busch are marked “do not release under any circumstances”. Mr King would like all documents related to the case to be opened to the public and has used the Freedom of Information Act. Barry King’s last appeal filed on December 13, 2016, was denied by the Michigan Supreme Court.

Suspect, John Wayne Gacy, was also investigated. John is known for being a serial killer of at least 33 young boys.  There were times that he worked as a clown for children’s parties.

A witness to Timothy King’s abduction had mentioned two men in a car talking to the boy.  The description of one of the men matched John Gacy. This same suspect said the men were driving a blue Gremlin with a white stripe. Some believe she saw Chris Busch’s blue Vega that was known to have a white stripe.

John Wayne Gacy was also in Michigan around the time of the murders. According to DNA tests done in 2013, he was not involved in the killings.

Suspect, James Vincent Gunnels, was repeatedly sexually assaulted by Chris Busch as a young teenager. James was also one of the children who had been involved in the North Fox Island child prostitution and pornography ring. His hair was a mitochondrial DNA match for hair found on the body of the first female victim, Krisitine Mihelich. However, the DNA was do degraded no further testing could be done.

Suspect, Archibold Edward Sloan was a known paedophile. Hair samples were found in his 1966 Pontiac Bonneville that matched both murdered boys, but he often let his paedophile friends borrow the car. An associate of Archibold was linked to the bodies of the two slain boys.  They found his hair at the crime scene. Archibold Slone worked in the area of the killings. He was later arrested again for first-degree criminal sexual conduct and has been sentenced to life in prison since January 1985.

A more obscure suspect only goes by the name of Allen. Allen claimed to be the sadomasochist slave of a roommate named Frank, and Frank was the serial killer. A letter he sent to the police was poorly written and showed signs of guilt over the killings.

Allen claimed that he helped Frank cruise for children, but that he was never around when they were abducted. Frank’s motivation was being traumatized by killing children in Vietnam. He was retaliating by killing the children of people who were affluent citizens, as he felt he wasn’t compensated for going to war. Allen claimed that Frank drove a blue Gremlin but that he got rid of it in Ohio.

A psychiatrist with the task force, Dr Bruce Danto, believed the letter to be authentic. Allen had Dr Danto send him a coded message in the personal ads. When Dr Danto did as instructed, Allen called him and offered photographic evidence. Allen never showed up at the meeting spot and was never heard from again.

Evidence that connects all four murders, is a hair from the same white dog was found on all four victims.

The OCCK is an unsolved cold case.

3 True Crime Places To Visit

The Crime Museum in Washington, D.C.  It is a museum that talks about all sorts of crime in the US.  Their current exhibit is on Alcatraz.  The interesting fact about the museum is that when it was established in 2008, it was the first for-profit museum of crime.  One of the owners is John Walsh.  His son Adam was lured away from his mom at a mall and killed.  There is a studio in the museum that was used to record Unsolved Mysteries.

Jenn can’t watch Unsolved MYsteries on Hulu because she is too cheap to pay for Hulu without commercials and too spoiled to watch with commercials.

Villesca Ax Murders.  This is a family home where an entire family, and two guests, were killed with an axe.  It is in Iowa.  There were eight victims in total.  Josiah Moore family and two kids staying the night after a church function.  You can have day tours or pay a large sum of money and stay there.

Side note: Benny Evangelist.  We now know where his chopped off head was… placed at his feet.  His whole family was axed to death in Detroit.

In Hastings, England there is a True Crime Museum.  Jack the Ripper evidence and lethal injection beds are on display.  It is too much money for us to go.  Jenn was able to find a video of the inside of the museum that will be a part of the Continuing Conversation.

What is in Iowa.  Corn, potatoes, wheat and soybeans?

Ali then messes up the end of the podcast, after saying the same thing literally 20 times previously.  She is special.

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